As the carnage in Gaza continues, I have found scant agreement in online forums that Israel and Hamas both are responsible.
Caitlin Johnstone News Letter
Biden administration officials are telling the press that they have no plans to place any conditions on military aid to Israel.
Sloan Bashinsky Writes Sloan’s NewsletterI think Biden’s deep Christian roots programmed him like a robot to support and defend Israel no matter what Israel does. I think the Bible is why many American Christians on the right and on the left still support Israel. I think it doesn’t matter who is president next, they will support Israel. I think they all have their heads up where the sun never shines, and I wonder if that will ever change? I also wonder if the people running Hamas now wish they had not ordered the October 7 attack, and I wonder why they have not offered to return all the hostages that were taken, if Israel will stop attacking Gaza and will pull its troops out of Gaza?
gypsy333Have to disagree. ByeDone’s Catholic. I was raised Catholic, and we were NOT Zionazis; in fact, the nuns at my school expressed no love lost between Catholics and Jews.ByeDone’s a Ziobitch because it benefits him monetarily. It’s all about the Benjamin’s, ya know.
Mike Fish
You’re too smart to be wasting your time and energy on this bullshitsky stuff.
Only knows one song.
Hamas Hamas Hamas.Sloan Bashinsky
Actually, it’s Hamas, Israel, Israel, Hamas, Hamas, Israel, Israel Hamas. It takes two to fight, tango, rumba, etc. :-)Mike Fish
Hamas founded - 1987.
Israel founded - 1948.
The tangle/tango has some features that don’t sound like a mutual waltz.
More like a death march.Sloan Bashinsky
Hamas was founded to destroy Israel. They’ve been death waltzing ever since.russian_bot
Founded by whom, and to destroy why. Just a couple questions for the forum's enlightener based on his own statement.Sloan Bashinsky
Based on your and my many tangos at Caitlin’s place, I figure you know very well the answer to your question, and you continue to courageously weave and dodge behind a fake name. For the benefit on anyone else watching on, I have posted this numerous times at Caitlin’s place:
PBS articleHamas, an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”), was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, a Palestinian cleric who became an activist in local branches of the Muslim Brotherhood after dedicating his early life to Islamic scholarship in Cairo. Beginning in the late 1960s, Yassin preached and performed charitable work in the West Bank and Gaza, both of which Israel occupied following the 1967 Six-Day War.Yassin established Hamas as the Brotherhood’s political arm in Gaza in Dec. 1987, following the outbreak of the first intifada, a Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.At the time, Hamas’s purpose was to counter Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), another organization whose commitment to violently resisting Israel threatened to draw Palestinians’ support away from the Brotherhood.In 1988, Hamas published its charter, calling for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic society in historic Palestine. In what observers called an attempt to moderate its image, Hamas presented a new document [PDF] in 2017 that accepted an interim Palestinian state along the “Green Line” border established before the Six-Day War but that still refused to recognize Israel.
russian_bot"courageously weave and dodge behind a fake name" - thanks for bringing up my pet peeve.
There's a Russian saying - I'm sure something like that exists in English too - that could be translated as "One is greeted by clothes (or appearance), and seen off by wits".
I have no way of ascertaining who you are, "Sloan". Moreover, I don't care. If you come in flashing your name and/or status you deliberately restrict interaction by imposing your supposed weight. Which results in losing authenticity as many people suffer from a groupie syndrome and are easily starstruck.
Therefore, I'm actually for the anonymity on the internet for these types of engagements. It's what you say that matters, not who you say you are. Do you get it?Maybe now you'll understand why it cracks me up every single time you mention you were invited by Caitlin to join this forum. Implying, no doubt, how you feel obligated to suffer from engaging with the plebes here. Funny as hell you are, "Sloan".Sloan BashinskyHeh, I freely engage with you and others at Caitlin’s place, and I wonder if anyone here will ever grow up enough give Hamas some credit for what’s going on in Gaza now? I sometimes mention how I arrived here so people like you can blame Caitlin for it, since I’d never heard of her before she subscribed to my Substack newsletter and invited me to subscribe to hers. I’m easy to find on Facebook, Substack, the free internet library (archive.org), and The Redneck Mystic Lawyer Podcast (YouTube and Torrent). The U.S. government and all its Big Brothers know where I live. If you live in America and want to drop by for a chat in a public place, I will give you an easy to find location. I once was harassed on a very large public blog forum in the Florida Keys by a lot of people, nearly all using fake names, and I offered to meet them anywhere they chose, and they could bring any weapons and any people they wished, and I would come by all by my lonesome, and there were no takers.
russian_bot
You didn't get it, "Sloan".
I don't care who you are, I only am (or not) interested in what you say.
Sloan Bashinsky
But you sure have a lot to say about what I say:-)
russian_bot
Not a lot, but quite a bit, yes. While not caring who you are. I guess I have to point it out every time now.
Sloan BashinskyI know you don’t care for who I am, or for me, that’s very clear, but it does seem you care a great deal about what I say, because it keeps riling you up :-), and you keep trying to belittle me, which actually means you care a great deal :-).
russian_botWrong again, "Sloan". You crack me up, and I appreciate you for that. That's why I check you out most of the time.It's the same idea why I care about what David Brent would say or do. Get it?Sloan BashinskyNever heard of David Brent, so I couldn't relate to the analogy. I went online and saw he’s a fictional character in a British mocumentary. I’m not a fictional character, but I live among many people who prefer fiction to reality :-). At this forum, the biggest fiction by far is, what’s going on today in Gaza is 100 percent Israel and America’s fault, and Hamas has nothing to do with it.
Sloan BashinskyWell, Gypsy, something has programmed Biden like a robot to back Israel to the hilt, so far. I know, by living among them, that a lot of Christians on the left and on the right are fully beind Israel, and that is rooted in their religious beliefs - the Bible. I recall Donald Trump telling America and Israel that he was Israels best friend. So, if Trump gets elected in 2024, I expect him to live up to that. The irony is, Biden is losing votes by continuing to send Israel money, weapons and munitions, which increases the odds of Trump being elected in 2024. My hope is something will happen, perhaps in the courts, to take Trump out of that race, but even if that happens, most Republicans and I suppose all MAGAs are fully behind Israel, and the Republican candidate, if it not Trump, will be fully behind Israel. Where I live, Alabama, Israel supporters could care less what the UN, the rest of the world, or Americans against Israel think.
Meanwhile, I still wonder if the people leading Hamas wish they had not ordered the October 7 attack, and why they have not offered to release all their hostages in exchange for Israel stopping its devastation of Gaza? I am left thinking Hamas wanted Israel to do what it is doing in Gaza, as part of some draconian scheme to turn the entire world against Israel. But I don’t think it will ever turn the Bible thumpers in America against Israel. They will never side with Islam against Israel.
gypsy332
As I said, it’s ALL ABOUT donations from the likes of AIPAC, etc.
And I assure you, that growing up Catholic, we barely cracked open the Bible 😉
Sloan Bashinsky
As far as I know, very few Catholics crack open the Bible, which I think dates back to when the Catholic mass was in Latin and only Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals and the pope read the Bible :-). I think there is more than AIPAC driving Biden, but that probably doesn’t matter. Clearly, he is talking out of both sides of his mouth, and clearly he does not want to cut off money, weapons and munitions to Israel, and he’s losing votes over that, and maybe he won’t be the Democratic candidate for president in 2024, and maybe he will. I can’t imagine any Democratic candidate campaigning on stopping aid to Israel, as long as the Republicans and the MAGAS exist :-). I hope something happens that gets Israel’s attention and it stands down. because I see no way it can defeat Hamas in Gaza, and I think IDF has already figured that out, but it is dealing with religious fanatics running Israel, and both IDF and those fanatics are looking really bad for ignoring lots of warnings that Hamas was about to attack Israel, and male egos are involved big time, and religious beliefs are involved big time, and it's a perfect mix that only someone like Steven King might dream up in a sequel to The Stand?
PXX
Both parties 100% on board with permanent blank check to Israel. In that respect, it makes no difference who is elected. Don't think Catholic it has anything to do with it. (few in Congress give a rat's ass about religious doctrine. Biden flipped on abortion, for instance, to get the votes)Sloan BashinskyReally, few in Congress give a rat’s ass about religious doctrine? I bet just about every Republican in Congress would beg to disagree, and quite a few Democrats in Congress, too :-)
John Mann
I am a Christian, but for over 50 years I have been a supporter of Palestinian rights who has been boycotting Israeli products.
Yes, I think the Bible probably does make a lot of Christians instinctively feel that the Israelis are the good guys. But in the past few weeks, a surprising number of people at church have said things to me that indicate that they don't think that is the case this time.
Sloan Bashinsky
I’m seeing that, too, with some Christians where I live and on social media. Yet, I live in a very red state, and I have conversations with enough people to think any US president, or candidate for president, who sides with Hamas against Israel, or is perceived do that, willl lose to a candidate who to stands firm behind Israel.
John Mann
Well, I live in rural Scotland, and political views over here are probably somewhat different from those where you are! An opinion poll a month ago showed that people in Scotland were more likely to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian side than the Israeli side, whereas in England and Wales, sympathies were pretty evenly split.
Sloan Bashinsky
America is very different from where you live, which I visited a long time ago and loved it. Starting at Glasgow, I rented a car and drove up past Loch Ness to Inverness and over to Aberdeen (spelling?), and to St. Andrews and then to Edinburg, as I recall the itinerary. Beautiful countryside. A very different world back then, than now, which America’s made up war in Vietnam helped birth. Now we have judges and prosecutors and their families receiving death threats over abortion rulings and anything having to do with Donald Trump, who plainly told Israel he was their best friend, so imagine where the MAGAs and Republicans stand on Israel. And many Democrats stand the same on Israel.
Bill WolfeI thought current US law prohibit US weapons sales and military aid to be used for offensive purposes or to kill civilians or violate international law or conduct ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Congress is letting Biden get away with bypassing Congressional approvals and vioalting US and international law.Question for the Legal Eagles out there: Can some peace group or citizen sue to enforce the law? Do such groups have legal standing to sue? If so, why isn't homelike like Code Pink suing Biden? Biden is already being sued for complicity in genocide. A lawsuit to block US funding would be far more effective than the international criminal court enforcement of relying on a novel genocide prosecution in US federal court.
Sloan BashinskyAre you willing to be the plaintiff? I’m a retired lawyer, who clerked for a U.S. District judge before practicing law, and there might be legal redress theoretically, but imagine the legal quagmire a federal judge would face, and imagine the appeals, and reflect on how it’s going in the federal and state court cases involving Donald Trump, and imagine lots of death threats the plaintiff and his/her lawyers and their families would receive, and would there be a favorable ruling against President Biden, and who would enforce it? Could anyone enforce it? I can imagine if President Biden cut off money, weapons and munitions to Israel, he and his family would receive death threats. They might be killed. I think Biden knows that. I also think he should rise above it, because when he became president, his first duty was to that office, and that duty superseded all that came before.
Joy in HK
I firmly believe that trying to undo the sins of the nation state within the confines of the nation-state construct will lead to more death and destruction. Along with saving lives, part of what I want to do is to encourage more of us to think about new ways to think and act on this issue.
There must be a permanent ceasefire in Gaza, not with Palestinians suffering under oppressive conditions, but as a place where all live with peace and equality. It is time for Pope Francis to do more than talk. He must go to Gaza and make a stand for peace and freedom.
Please sign the petition and share widely.
https://chng.it/CRQ7qw4Gzn
This is one small thing we can do. If we can do more, let us do more.
Sloan BashinskyI have not seen anyone who commented under any of Caitlin’s Gaza articles say they were going to Israel or Gaza to protest. Lots of people who comment use pseudonyms, which is understandable, given how crazy it’s gotten in America, for example. But when they don’t put their real name on their words, are they to be respected? Having said that, I agree with you about Pope Francis going to Gaza and trying to end the carnage. He took that name after St. Francis of Assisi, the first person in Christendom recognized by the Vatican to have received the stigmata wounds of Christ on the cross while still living in the flesh. I have read historical accounts of Francis of Assisi, before he was made a saint by the Catholic Church, going to Palestine and trying to win over the Muslims, who thought he was touched by God, or in the head, and they respected him for that and did not harm him, but they were not won over by him. Maybe Hamas would view Pope Francis similarly?
